Otitis

Regional public organization of disabled people “Perspective.

Today we present excerpts from the transcript of the speech of the expert of the project “System of Rehabilitation Services for People with Disabilities in the Russian Federation” (EU-Russia) Alexander Evgenievich Lysenko.

The topic of the speech is “Unclassified! The truth about the situation of disabled children in Russia”

Lysenko: The topic of my speech is dedicated to disabled children and disability in Russia. In order to correctly illuminate these problems, you need to “pass” them through your soul, through your heart. You need to try to put yourself in the place of another person who is directly faced with their problems. Then the effectiveness of publications, speeches, and work will be much higher. The most important thing is that then we will get exactly the result we are striving for.

I call you colleagues because I consider your role in solving disability problems to be no less than, for example, my role as a rehabilitation specialist - a person who systematically deals with the rehabilitation of people with disabilities. Disability is not an attribute of the person himself. Disability arises as a result of the fact that a person who has a biological defect faces problems, difficulties, barriers that are created for him by people who are not disabled. Basically, life is structured in such a way that non-disabled people determine living conditions for disabled people by creating a living environment for the “average person”.
Therefore, I want, first of all, to invite here your colleagues, photojournalist Dima, his wife Nelly and their son Kirill. Please come here.

I swear that today we saw each other for the first time. And the guys will confirm this. Unfortunately, a not very rosy and cheerful situation brought us together. I want them to tell you themselves what happened. I think that then it will be more clear what I will talk about further in my presentation. Therefore, I will ask Nellie to tell you about what problems forced us to get acquainted and meet. And how these problems were solved.

Nellie: I’ll probably start with the fact that at three years and nine months our child was diagnosed with early childhood autism. Many of you have heard what this is. This is a special condition that is characterized by the child’s developmental characteristics, behavior, attention, and speech development. And from that moment, of course, our life changed dramatically.

Until this time, we thought that our child was growing up, normal. It took some time to get used to this idea and start doing something to change the situation. Since then we have tried a lot of rehabilitation methods. We tried drug therapy, which, unfortunately, did not lead to anything good and only undermined our son’s health, dolphin therapy, and hypotherapy. We worked with psychologists, speech therapists, and speech pathologists, including a group of children.

By the time Kirill reached the age of eight, we began to deal with school choice. All parents of autistic children face this choice. And this choice is very difficult. It is no secret that there are simply no schools for such children, even in Moscow, not to mention other cities. We chose a compromise option. This is a comprehensive school not far from our home, where we were accepted for individual training. This is not ideal. The ideal option would be to include such children in regular classes. But, unfortunately, a lot is said about integrative education, but, in fact, five years ago, when we took our child to first grade, we did not have such a choice. And we settled on individual training. The form of education is called home-based, but, in fact, we bring the child to school, and he studies individually with teachers.

I must say, we have never regretted this choice of school. We were received very well there. A wonderful director, a wonderful head teacher of home education. Teachers who teach these children are selected very carefully. After all, not every teacher will be able to work - you need to reconsider your teaching methodology, find an approach to such a child. Not everything, of course, was smooth, but, in general, we are very pleased with this school, and we are grateful to the teaching staff. The most important thing is that Kirill feels good there. Everyone knows him there, he has many friends. And the children know him, and no one has ever offended him, which often happens in other schools.
But before that we did not have disabled status. Two years ago we decided to get this status for our child. For various reasons, we did not do this earlier, but gradually came to understand that this will only help us in further rehabilitation. We completely unexpectedly encountered a lot of problems. In order to undergo a disability commission for a child diagnosed with a mental illness, you must first undergo a commission in a psychiatric hospital. There we were given a completely different diagnosis and given recommendations to change school to a correctional one, that is, auxiliary.

We strongly disagreed with this diagnosis and recommendations. But they didn’t really listen to us. Because support schools are designed for children with other problems, not autistic children. At the commission to determine disability, we were given an ultimatum: either you change school and get a disability, or you don’t change school, but you don’t get a disability either. In general, the conversation was conducted in this vein: “Your child is socially adjusted, goes to a regular school, why did you come here? He’s so good, why are you making him disabled?” We didn't say that he was bad. He is good, but he needs help, he has problems, and you shouldn’t turn a blind eye to it. This is objective reality.

Unfortunately, we were rejected two years ago. At that time, we did not have the opportunity to seek justice because we were expecting the birth of our second child. Our daughter was born and during these two years there was neither the opportunity nor the time to do this. Now we have decided to resume our attempts, and have encountered the same wall of misunderstanding and reluctance to delve into the problem. Behind these diagnoses, behind the statements, behind the papers, unfortunately, the specialists who are supposed to help us do not see a specific child, and simply do not want to help him.

The help in this case was to leave everything as is in terms of training. There is a school that accepts us. There are teachers who want to study with him. The child is happy in this school. It would seem that we should be happy. Why change anything? We turned to independent experts from the Institute of Correctional Pedagogy of the Russian Academy of Education for advice. They categorically disagreed with the diagnosis and recommended that we continue studying at our school. But it turns out that the Institute of Correctional Pedagogy, which is a very authoritative institution in our country and in the world, is not authoritative for the federal state institution of medical and special examination, in which we passed the commission.

And, if not for the intervention of Alexander Evgenievich Lysenko, this problem, apparently, would not have been solved, and the son would not have received disabled status. It was only thanks to intervention from above that we succeeded. But only for 9 months. That is, after 9 months, in June, everything will start all over again.

In general, a separate conversation is about how parents are received, how they talk to us, how they look at us in healthcare institutions, in a psychiatric hospital. They talk to us like we are wretched people, as if we come to ask for something to which we have no right, and which only they have the power to give us.
At the moment, the problem has not been resolved because the issue of training is up in the air. To obtain the right to study individually, you need a certificate issued by a doctor. But I hope that we will solve it.
Lysenko: I'd like to ask. What is your family composition now?

Answer: We are a party of four. Our grandparents help us all the time. Because Kirill needs to be taken to school and homework done with him.

Lysenko: Do your grandparents live with you?

Answer: Not all the time, but they come.

Lysenko: Are you not working?

Answer: I haven't worked for 13 years.

Lysenko: You are constantly with Kirill and your daughter. This means that only Dima is actually working. Dima, what problems do you face? It is clear that you have a serious responsibility. Grandparents are pensioners. Nellie doesn't work.

Dima: I'm a photojournalist. Well, what responsibility? It so happened that my child is like this. Let's take it as it comes. I have to be honest.

Lysenko: I see that your eyes are a little dull, have your wings drooped?

Dima: Well, what are you? What are you talking about? Compared to the problems of children in Beslan, our problem is nothing out of the ordinary.

I have to admit that as a father, I'm probably not very good. Because I'm mainly concerned with how to make a living. As a photographer, I had to work in a variety of places - from filming in hot spots to filming in extreme temperature conditions, on oil rigs. I have seen a lot of things, I can compare a lot of things. And, objectively, I repeat, our situation is not out of the ordinary. I take this calmly. I take it as it comes.
Perhaps, due to the fact that I am a journalist, I have a more skeptical and cynical attitude towards life within the framework of our state - I do not expect anything from it. I don’t owe him anything, I don’t owe him anything, and I don’t expect anything good from him. The main thing is that they don’t do anything bad to us, but leave us alone.

They helped us restore justice, thanks to the intervention of Alexander Evgenievich. I found him through a human rights activist I knew from the Sakharov Center. Yes, we are generally lucky. But I was left with the feeling that we were not helped to get what we deserved. Our son was given the status of a disabled person “through connections,” or something. There was such an expression during the years of stagnation. That is, they made an exception.

On Friday last week we were turned down for the same reasons. They were rude and spoiled the mood. And only thanks to the fact that Alexander Evgenievich made incredible efforts, he made calls. I can only guess what he had to do, who he had to talk to. And the same woman who refused us called our home phone. The conversation took place with a completely different intonation. And on Monday the issue was resolved in two minutes. We were solemnly given a pink certificate and, thus, we are covered for 9 months. We don't know what will happen next. We have a timeout: 9 months.

Once again thank you very much for your human participation. Without you, our status would remain the same, to call a spade a spade.

Lysenko: I’m very upset that in our life it turns out that we have to go somewhere, ask someone in order for something to be done. All such matters should be resolved automatically, without any pretense.

What do I want to wish you? You have the absolutely correct position that you take everything for granted. I am sure that Kirill will adapt and live normally in the future. It is clear that the issue is not at all about this pink certificate. The main thing is that now it is necessary to do what I told you about before: formulate a good rehabilitation program and concentrate efforts on its implementation. Here we have Yulia Anatolyevna Razenkova from the Institute of Correctional Pedagogy. I really hope that the institute will help us in this regard. We need a good, competent rehabilitation program. After all, even the diagnosis was changed as a result of an independent examination. Severe diagnoses that were previously made have been removed. And there is a prospect. And that’s why we, rehabilitators, exist, to help the child and his family, to think and solve all problems together. In fact, in rehabilitation, everything is done by a team of specialists. Not one doctor, not one psychologist, not one teacher, but a team of specialists.

I think that we must now form such a team together. Think about how you can rebuild your family life in order to achieve better results, think about everyone’s role in achieving these results. Including the role of Kirill himself, of course. I wish you success. Thanks a lot. You are very courageous people for coming to us all together like this. But our audience is our colleagues and friends. And, of course, we will not name names or cities.
By your presence, you are doing a huge job to solve the problems of disabled children. Because it is very important for us to correctly understand what is happening around us and why it is happening. These cause-and-effect relationships must be identified in order for the materials in the media to be deep and truthful. And so that what happened to you, in principle, would no longer happen to other people. This is our common goal. Thank you so much! Goodbye!

Today in the first half of the day Oleg Nikolaevich Smolin, State Duma deputy, spoke brilliantly. And you, of course, are convinced that the state is doing a lot to solve the problems of families with disabled children and disabled children themselves. And these steps are visible. Significant progress has been seen over the past two years. Firstly, funding increases every year. This cannot be denied. Secondly, the Presidential Council for Disabled People was created. Russia, under certain public and professional pressure, is moving forward: it has signed the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, now intends to ratify it, and much more.

But I think that today it is more correct to talk about pain points. This does not mean that we should criticize the Government, the President, ministries, departments for not working well. No. Let's learn to talk about pain points constructively. To understand what we need to do and where to move. I think this is very important today.

But there are basically two pain points in solving the problems of disabled children and their families: poverty and discrimination. Here is our example with which we started today. It demonstrates these two problems very well. I could not speak in the presence of Dima, Nellie and Kirill, but the child had previously been diagnosed with early autism, psychoorganic syndrome, mental retardation. According to existing criteria, such a diagnosis cannot help but establish disability.

But imagine, today we are talking about integrated education. That disabled children should go to general school. But a child is denied a disability status precisely because he is studying in a comprehensive school?! “If you studied in a correctional school, you would be disabled! And if you study in a comprehensive school, that means you are not disabled”!!! Paradoxical situation! This suggests that the existing systems of medical and social examination and education are simply “cut with an ax” from each other. And there is no interaction between these two systems. Now the child’s diagnosis has been changed and given another, no less serious one.

I’ll tell you honestly, when I found out that the child was not diagnosed with a disability, I lay “in a hypertensive crisis” all day. When I talked about this with the leadership of the medical and social examination service, they told me: “What are you talking about! This cannot happen in principle. They should have established a disability!”

Why was it important for them to get disability for their child? In our country, if you are disabled, you are subject to the Federal Law “On Social Protection of Disabled Persons in the Russian Federation.” And then you get lots and lots of things. First of all, access to free rehabilitation. If you are not disabled, then many things are closed in front of you, or you have to pay for it. Because, unfortunately, there is no law on rehabilitation, which would provide guarantees of rehabilitation for all people, and not just for disabled people, in the Russian Federation today.

Today Oleg Nikolaevich Smolin said that opponents of the law “On Special Education” say: “today there is a law “On Education” and there is no point in coming up with a special law for people with disabilities. It’s the same with the law “On social protection of disabled people in the Russian Federation”, they say: “there is a law on disabled people and there is no need to come up with a separate law on rehabilitation. Although, in England there are approximately 20 laws dedicated to people with disabilities. It's the same in tiny Ireland.

Similar in other developed countries. For some reason, legislators there are not afraid to create a new regulatory framework when new problems and new tasks arise. We have a different attitude towards this.

So, the pain points: poverty and discrimination. We will rely only on facts. Of course, they are not presented here in full, but I guarantee those that are presented.

Statistics. The only figure I doubt is the number of disabled children in the Russian Federation. If you open the Foundation's brochure, it says 537 thousand. This was the year before last. A disabled child is one who receives a social disability pension. Accounting is maintained by the Pension Fund of the Russian Federation. Unfortunately, today this information is closed. If previously there were statistics on the total number of disabled people, which were not maintained by the Pension Fund, we knew how many disabled people there were in the country. Today, departmental statistics from the Ministry of Health and Social Development allow us to take into account only primary disability - only when a person comes and is diagnosed with a disability for the first time; or those who are diagnosed with a disability during re-examination. And the total number of disabled people in Russia today is unknown. The total number of disabled children - those who receive pensions - is data from the Pension Fund. Therefore, today I do not give a guarantee for this figure. But I promise to scratch out this number for you. I assume that today it is less than 500 thousand.

The question arises: how quickly is the number of disabled children decreasing? And what does this have to do with? Yes, of course, the reasons are demographic - fewer children are being born. Another question arises: maybe they will remove the disability? Or are there problems with establishing disability? Why?

A colleague from the Ministry of Education who spoke to me talked about the number of children with disabilities. According to the analytical department of the Federation Council, we have approximately 1.6 million children with disabilities in the Russian Federation. Many families do not seek disability benefits for their children. They don’t want to, they’re embarrassed, they don’t know, they don’t want to - there are many reasons. Or they do not fit the fairly strict criteria for determining disability, which are becoming more stringent every year. For example, today a child who has no vision in one eye is not recognized as disabled.

Among the causes of disability in the first place are congenital anomalies, please note - the red number! This is new statistics according to the Federal Bureau of Medical and Social Expertise. Statistics 2009. It hasn't been published anywhere yet. In 2008, for the first time, the largest number of disabled people with congenital anomalies were identified - 15,271 people. This is almost 23% of all newly identified disabled children. So, congenital anomalies come first.

But if we analyze boys and girls, the causes of disability are different. In boys (highlighted in red) - 8711 were newly diagnosed with mental disorders (22.7%). They traditionally come first for boys. In girls, there were 7261 newly diagnosed cases with congenital anomalies (25.2%).
If we analyze the dynamics over the years, the increase in congenital anomalies is noteworthy. The situation here is paradoxical. A sharp improvement in the quality of perinatal care, improving the work of perinatal departments, equipping them with modern equipment today makes it possible to care for very sick children and save their lives. The better medicine works, the more the number of people with serious health problems increases. But modern medical technologies save people's lives and give them the opportunity to live.

Here are the statistics that were obtained as a result of a sociological study conducted last year as part of the project “System of Rehabilitation Services for People with Disabilities in the Russian Federation” (EU-Russia Cooperation Programme). How do these people with disabilities live?
We first interviewed about 3.5 thousand people, and then another 700 people on the issues of providing technical means of rehabilitation. This is the largest sociological study in the Russian Federation in recent years. The question was: where do you experience humiliation and resentment the most? In first place are hospitals and medical institutions - 44% of respondents. Public transport - 37%. Trade enterprises - 29%. In fact, every disabled person faces humiliation and resentment in his life.

How much money does the family of a disabled child live on today? Pension - 3900 rubles, daily allowance - 1146 rubles, cost of a set of services if you do not receive a social package - 615 rubles. care allowance - 1200 rubles, without coefficients. In regions where there are coefficients - 1380 rubles. Total: 6861 rub.

Please judge for yourself whether this is a lot or a little. But keep in mind that there is often a second dependent or disabled person in the family. Often there is an incomplete family. Mom doesn't work, as a rule. If my mother had not worked before, then her experience did not suit her. Now, according to the package of pension laws that Oleg Nikolaevich Smolin spoke about, a mother’s work experience will be valid if she does not work and is caring for a disabled child. True, there is one caveat: the length of service will work, but in total no more than five years (meaning pension insurance experience).

Yes, there are regions like Moscow, for example, that pay extra. In Moscow, the cost of living is 8.5 thousand rubles. The difference is paid extra. There are also a number of additional payments. But this is not the case everywhere.

Access to education. According to data from a special report of the Commissioner for Human Rights in the Russian Federation (2006), there are about 200 thousand disabled children of school age in our country who cannot realize the constitutional right to education.

Sociological survey. We started today with what the government is doing. The state invests money. But how to evaluate how effective it is? What is the result of this?

According to our survey, from 59 to 84% of disabled people do not feel positive changes (depending on their membership in various categories): hearing impairment, visual impairment, mobility impairment, mental retardation. 95% of disabled people believe that the state takes little care of them. We must be fair in this regard. Yes, as a result of the policy towards disabled people that was in Soviet times, a big problem of dependency appeared among the disabled themselves. Of course, this applies more to disabled adults than to children. Or to parents of disabled children. Today, they sometimes come to rehabilitation institutions and say: “Put a stamp that we have completed rehabilitation with the child,” despite the fact that the child has not completed the rehabilitation course.

50% of the population sees significant differences between themselves and people with disabilities. 27% believe that people with disabilities do not fit into society. This is almost a third of our population. And almost 20% of the population considers people with disabilities a burden to society. This is the huge social distance in our society in which we have to deal with disability issues.

So your role is to reduce that social distance. You are the one who works with the healthy part of the population.

Technical means of rehabilitation are a very important element of the rehabilitation system. Many disabled people simply cannot do without them. For example, people with hearing impairments cannot do without hearing aids, and children with hearing disabilities cannot do without cochlear implants. Disabled people with supports are very dependent on technical means of rehabilitation. About half of disabled children are not satisfied with the technical means of rehabilitation received from the state - we interviewed children aged 14 to 18 years; and more than half of parents of disabled children are not satisfied. They believe that the technical means of rehabilitation provided free of charge by the state are of low quality, insufficient functionality, and require constant repairs. The reason is clear - they are purchased by the state under tender conditions, in which the main criterion is price, and corruption has penetrated the problem very deeply, so the quality of the products is low.

For example, I heard from Yuri Mikhailovich Luzhkov that he calls Law No. 94 absurd. From the lips of Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin, I heard that Law No. 122 is “notorious.” However, what is changing? We will talk further about what and how to change in the legislation.

Medical and social examination. Almost half of the survey participants were dissatisfied with the medical and social examination procedure in our country.

Question: where should disabled people study? After all, we have to think, and not just three experts sit down and say: we must do this and that for a disabled person. Any issue that concerns disabled children and parents of disabled children must be resolved together. We must listen to the opinions and positions that exist today among disabled people, among parents of disabled children, among the children themselves. They are equal participants in the rehabilitation process.

Where should disabled people study? The majority of disabled people (in red at the top) are visually impaired, hearing impaired, support people, as well as the population, healthy people, who believe that disabled people need special education - 69, 74, 46 and 60%, respectively.

General secondary school for disabled people. These percentages fluctuate: 14, 16, 25, 14%. Homeschooling. The population believes that 15% should be homeschooled. This suggests that today our society is not yet ready for a rapid transition to integrated (inclusive) education. Because they are not fools. They understand perfectly well that today our secondary school is not ready for this.

Last year I talked with major psychologists from Italy, specialists in inclusive education. I asked: what are your problems in the field of inclusive education? They say: two problems are the unpreparedness of the teaching staff and the unpreparedness of parents for their children to study together.
I attended a lecture by a specialist from the Institute of Correctional Pedagogy. She explained the problem of integrated education simply and clearly. The structure of disability is different: mild, moderate, severe; hearing impaired, vision impaired; wheelchair users and so on - a very different structure of disability both in type and severity. And the structure of knowledge is also different: on the one hand, “muso”, “physics”, “iso”, on the other - mathematics, physics, chemistry. And when they say that those with severe mental retardation will be taught mathematics at such and such a level, the question arises how realistic this is. How necessary is this at all? If we again go, as we always did in Russia, along the “cauldron path”: we decided, divided, everything is global, then we will get absolutely zero results.

Do you know how many suicides there were in the West, in the United States of America during the transition to inclusive education among people with disabilities? It was a splash. And this, by the way, attracted attention. Therefore, to act so abruptly will not mean some special path, but a cave ideology in this matter.

We surveyed focus groups of families of children with disabilities. These are the main problems that disabled children have to face today. First: the restrictions that have to be faced every day and which leave their mark on all areas of the lives of these families. Second: big financial problems.

Imagine our guests - Dima and Nellie, dad and mom - both are pensioners. Two children. Unemployed wife. How much does Dima have to work just to feed his family? Following. Impossibility of professional self-realization. Nellie is a very highly educated person who is fluent in German, linguistics, and so on, but is deprived of the opportunity to work. Next. Unfavorable conditions created by others and society as a whole: indifference, neglect, isolation, loneliness, hopelessness. A constant struggle for survival, which requires enormous effort and attention, and no hope for a decent future. This is what people say during a sociological survey.

They speak even more harshly. These are already scientific conclusions.

The huge role of the media. But a journalist is like an artist on stage who must come into contact with the public. You may not have direct contact, but you evaluate how your work is perceived. Both the public and people with disabilities overwhelmingly believe that the media does not pay enough attention to the problems of people with disabilities. You can argue about this, but talk, discuss. This is a fairly significant number, and everyone wants to be given a lot of attention in the press. In this case, the motivation comes not from the desire of this group of the population, but from the objective needs of the entire society. Because disability is not their problem. This is a problem for the whole society.

I would like to end my speech with the following. You've probably read Paulo Coelho's book “There's Always One Winner”? It gives an example that I love: if you throw a frog into a jar and gradually heat it up, it will boil, immobilized, and if you throw it into a jar of boiling water, it will jump out. It seems to me that the image of change should be in each of us. We should not be frogs who float with the flow, not feeling how the temperature around us changes, then we will be able to break the stereotypes listed above.

Today you saw a boy with autism. I want to quote a poem from a girl with autism. Her name is Sonya. “What makes you go into immortality? The smallest particles of existence. They are separated by stars and centuries, and with them I disappear. But, disappearing in the Universal Book, I leave clear features, and in every atom, and in every moment, bridges are built between me and Eternity.”

It seems to me that our common task is to talk, first of all, about bridges between people. This is how I understand this poem. We need to build these bridges. If we don’t direct them, then all the work we do will be foam. And foam, as you know, is a poor building material.

Prepared by Elena Zakharova

Promoting the inclusion of people with disabilities in the workforce is an interdepartmental task that requires coordination of efforts of all branches and levels of government, business and civil society, including public associations of people with disabilities. Ensuring employment of people with disabilities in the open labor market requires a systematic approach. This approach should include the creation of the necessary legal conditions and mechanisms for their implementation, including organizational and managerial ones, that stimulate the employment of people with disabilities. The ultimate goal of the joint efforts of the state, society and business is to ensure a decent standard of living for people with disabilities and, as a result, reduce the burden on the economically active part of society.
The UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, adopted in December 2006, contains a number of provisions (Article 27) establishing the right of persons with disabilities to work on an equal basis with other people. According to this Convention, legislative and other measures of UN member states should be aimed at prohibiting discrimination on the basis of disability in all aspects of employment, protecting the rights of people with disabilities in relation to working conditions and remuneration, ensuring labor and trade union rights, and ensuring effective access of people with disabilities to programs vocational guidance, employment services, vocational training, expanding opportunities for access to various forms of work, including in the public sector, encouraging the hiring of people with disabilities in the private sector and their work in an open labor market, encouraging vocational rehabilitation programs and maintaining jobs for people with disabilities .
Thus, the central issue in solving the problems of employment of disabled people is the elimination of barriers that infringe on the rights of disabled people and contribute to their discrimination.
Barriers that impede the solution of problems of employment of disabled people can be characterized as institutional, physical, informational, social, economic, psychological, etc. Their presence is typical not only for Russia, but also for many developed countries of the world. Based on comparative indicators of ensuring employment of people with disabilities in various countries, it can be stated that for Russia this issue is extremely relevant and requires an early solution (Table 1).
Discrimination against people with disabilities in employment has negative consequences both for people with disabilities themselves and for society as a whole. For people with disabilities, such discrimination leads to low incomes, decreased social status, dependence, lack of freedom of choice, infringement of rights and dignity, the formation of dissatisfaction and deterioration of relationships with other members of society, and lack of personal development. Society suffers from a decrease in labor resources and limited labor potential, an increase in the burden on the economically active part of the population, and an increase in social tension.

Table 1.
Assessing the effectiveness of efforts to ensure employment of people with disabilities

The most important direction for solving these problems is to improve the legislative norms regulating the issues of employment of people with disabilities. In accordance with the Federal Law “On Social Protection of Disabled Persons in the Russian Federation”, state guarantees of employment of disabled people are provided in the form of quotas for the employment of disabled people in organizations, regardless of their organizational and legal forms and forms of ownership, and reservation of jobs in professions most suitable for disabled people , stimulating the creation by enterprises, institutions, organizations of jobs (including special ones) for the employment of disabled people, as well as by creating working conditions for disabled people in accordance with individual rehabilitation programs, conditions for entrepreneurial activity, and organizing training for disabled people in new professions.

In practice, the implementation of these provisions encounters certain difficulties. Yes, Art. 21 of this law provides that for organizations with more than 100 employees, the legislation of the constituent entity of the Russian Federation establishes a quota for hiring disabled people as a percentage of the average number of employees (but not less than 2 and not more than 4 percent). Thus, all small and many medium-sized enterprises find themselves outside the scope of the law. At the same time, it is well known that small and medium-sized enterprises, due to many circumstances, are a system-forming resource of jobs for people with disabilities.
The practice of reforms (for example, tax reforms) indicates that in addition to fiscal approaches, incentive mechanisms play an important role. The balance of interests of government, business and society should have the ultimate goal of social integration, based on the one hand on the needs, interests, claims, rights and responsibilities of people with disabilities and on the participation, opportunities, accessibility, openness and competence of society, business and government on the other hand. Such integration must be based on social cohesion and social justice.
Currently, in accordance with the Federal Law “On Social Protection of Disabled Persons in the Russian Federation”, the size of the disability pension and monthly cash payments (UDV) depends on the degree of limitation of the ability of disabled people to work, which is established in the process of examination by specialists of federal state medical institutions -social expertise. For example, the presence of III (the most severe) degree of limitation of the ability to work means complete disability, excludes participation in work related to income generation, and provides for a maximum pension and monthly allowance. In these conditions, a person, as a rule, faces a choice between a guaranteed income on the verge of the subsistence level and, in the case of employment, non-guaranteed compensation for lost pensions and benefits (EDV). Given the existing level of pension provision, which does not take into account the specific needs of people with disabilities and the additional costs associated with them, such an approach sharply reduces the motivation of people with disabilities to find permanent legal work, stimulates “shadow” employment, and creates negative stereotypes among employers regarding the employment of people with disabilities.
The efforts of the Moscow authorities in solving these problems undoubtedly deserve a positive assessment. But it should be understood that a systematic approach to ensuring the employment of people with disabilities must include the adoption of coordinated decisions and the implementation of coordinated actions at all levels of government. The systematic approach should be based on a single ideology (mission, goals, objectives, concept) and a single state program that provides a plan for its implementation at the federal and regional levels. The resource capabilities of the federal center and the constituent entities of the Russian Federation, the distribution of budgetary and other powers must also be taken into account, indicators of the effectiveness of program implementation have been determined, and control criteria have been established.

Head of the industry department “Rehabilitation Industry”,
Chairman of the Committee on Disabled People
Founder and scientific director of Ortomoda LLC.

Born on November 24, 1952 in the city of Leningrad.

He graduated from the Military Medical Academy in 1976, specialty - military doctor.

From 1979 to 1982 he studied as an adjunct student at the Department of Military Field Therapy of the Military Medical Academy. In 1983, he defended his dissertation and received the academic degree of Candidate of Medical Sciences.

In 1984 he graduated from the Northwestern Correspondence Polytechnic University with a degree in computers and received the qualification of a systems engineer.

In 1995, he graduated from the Academy of National Economy under the Government of the Russian Federation in the department of training managers and specialists of government institutions, faculty of executives of state authorities and local government.

From 1976 to 1993 served in the Armed Forces in command, scientific, pedagogical and medical positions. From 1994 to 2004 worked in the Ministry of Social Protection of the Population of the Russian Federation, later renamed the Ministry of Labor and Social Development of the Russian Federation, in the positions of chief specialist, head of the Department, deputy head of the Department for Disabled People. Participated in the development of federal laws, decrees of the Government of the Russian Federation, and regulatory acts of the ministry. He supervised issues of the rehabilitation industry, the provision of prosthetic and orthopedic care to the population, the creation of an accessible living environment for people with disabilities, and the formation of market relations in the industry. State Councilor of the Russian Federation, 1st class. From 2004 to 2011 - scientific director of the Ortomoda company, worked as an expert on disability issues in numerous projects of the UN, World Bank, and European Commission. Founder of the ANO “National Center for Disability Problems”.

Social and scientific activities:
Since 1994, corresponding member of the Academy of Medical and Technical Sciences.
Chairman of the Expert Council of the Foundation for Promoting the Implementation of the Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities “Accessible Environment and Universal Design”.
Member of the Expert Council of the Foundation for Support of Children in Difficult Life Situations.
Member of the Council for Disabled People under the Chairman of the Federation Council of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation.
Member of the editorial board of the journal “Reabitology”.
Author of more than 100 scientific papers.

For the first time in Russia, he organized and headed the departments of rehabilitation at the Moscow Institute of Medical and Social Rehabilitation (Moscow) and at the Institute for Retraining and Advanced Training of Managers and Specialists of the Social Protection System of the Moscow City Population.

He created and theoretically substantiated a new scientific direction: rehabilitation biotechnical systems.

Married, has two children

Hobbies: traveling, sports.

The topic of the video conference: “Universal design of service provision taking into account the needs of people with disabilities.”

On February 11 (Tuesday), 2014 from 12:00 to 13:30 Moscow time, the Resource Center of the ROOI “Perspective” is holding a video conference with an expert, Scientific Director and Chairman of the Board of the ANO “National Center for Disability Problems” in Moscow ( LYSENKO Alexander Evgenievich).

LYSENKO Alexander Evgenievich:

Expert on disability issues of the ONF, Chairman of the Expert Council of the Fund for Assistance in the Implementation of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities "Accessible Environment and Universal Design", member of the Expert Council of the Fund for Support of Children in Difficult Life Situations, head of the industry branch for the rehabilitation industry and member of the Federal Intersectoral Council of the All-Russian public organization “Business Russia”, Member of the International Expert Council on Education within the framework of the “Social Navigator” project RIA NOVOSTI, expert of the Analytical Center for the Government of the Russian Federation.

Agree that the concept of “accessibility” is often identified only with physical objects. But when we come to a supermarket or a clinic, a cinema or a university, our ultimate goal is not so much to move around unhindered as to receive the service for which we came.

In the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, accessibility means, inter alia, equal access of people with disabilities to services open and provided to the public. The concept of “universal design” applies equally to services as well as objects, settings and programs.

Let's discuss together what universal design is in relation to services? How to organize the provision of services to all people without exception based on the principles of universal design? What has already been done and is being done to implement this principle in relation to services in Russia? What is the role of community organizations in removing the barriers that currently prevent people with disabilities from receiving services?

About the last webinar (including video recording):
see Universal service design: conversation with expert Alexander Lysenko

To participate in the videoconference you need:
1. Download TrueConf Online v6.4.1;
2. Register for the service directly from the program;
3. Call us from the TrueConf Online program at: or enter the conference using the following link.

TrueConf is a manufacturer of software systems for video conferencing and an official video conferencing operator. The company has extensive experience in developing and implementing video conferencing solutions in various fields.
For all organizational questions regarding participation in the videoconference, please contact Igor Kipchatov (This email address is being protected from spambots. You must have JavaScript enabled to view it.) and phone +7-495-725-39-82
We ask you to send your questions in advance to the following email address: This email address is being protected from spambots. You must have JavaScript enabled to view it. or leave them in the comments to the announcement on our website.

Konstantin Churikov: Well, in the next half hour we will talk about the employment of people with disabilities. It seems that the Ministry of Labor seriously intends to tackle this problem. Right now, about a third of disabled people of working age are working in our country, that’s about 1 million people, and by 2020, for example, as the Deputy Minister of Labor says, about half of all disabled people who are able to work should work. It was made, just recently in an interview with Izvestia, several statements were made that a certain bill was being developed that would make it possible to punish those employers who are not ready to fulfill quotas, their obligations and employ disabled people - to punish them with rubles. Well, in particular, they also say that a flexible approach is needed, help in writing a resume, help in general with finding a job is some kind of human, real, and not ostentatious.

Oksana Galkevich: We have repeatedly discussed on our broadcasts the problems of employing people with disabilities, this is not our first broadcast. Dear friends, let's join our conversation, all telephone numbers for contacting us are completely free, they are constantly listed at the bottom of your TV screens, write to us or call us, go live. Let's introduce our guest in the REFLECTION studio today Alexander Evgenievich Lysenko, expert of the All-Russian Popular Front on Disabled Affairs. Is everything right?

Alexander Lysenko: Good afternoon. Yes.

Konstantin Churikov: Hello, Alexander Evgenievich. Let's just start, for starters, as they say, let's look at the plot. Our correspondent in Rostov-on-Don, Dmitry Andriyanov, posing as a disabled person, tried to find a job as a radio electronics engineer, and this is what he got.

My applicant has work experience and qualifications - an electronics engineer or a radio engineer. Disability due to hearing loss, I think, should not be an obstacle to refusing him employment as, say, a mechanic for repairing instrumentation and automation - instrumentation and automation. The specialty, by the way, is in acute shortage.

A large plant for the repair of railway equipment is just inviting an instrument mechanic - the salary is 18 thousand rubles. But the HR department only heard about the disability and immediately suggested looking for vacancies elsewhere.

Employee of the HR department of the Rostov Electric Locomotive Repair Plant:“All full-time positions are certified in accordance with the Ministry of Health, we have a number of positions for which we have the right to accept hearing-impaired people - but this is not an instrument mechanic. A wrapper, for example. But again, at the moment there is no such vacancy.”

Electric motor wrapping is hard work: constantly on your feet, in a noisy workshop and the salary is significantly lower than that of skilled workers. At the machine-building plant, they were preliminary ready to consider the candidacy of a hearing-impaired applicant for the position of instrumentation mechanic, but the answer would only be given based on the results of an interview during a personal appearance at the enterprise.

HR manager at the Rostselmash plant:“Yes, here you need to look, firstly, about the vacancy, contact the personnel selection department, secondly, that is, what vacancies are there, and then look at the medical reports - in what conditions he can work, in which he cannot "The rehabilitation card is mainly interested in where the restrictions are written down."

The employment service answers, we don’t give consultations over the phone, the salary depends on qualifications and place of work, in general, come, we will find a suitable vacancy for you.

This year, out of 2,700 disabled people who applied to the employment service, about three hundred went to work after retraining as cooks, salespeople, accountants or forklift drivers. But the majority, 2,100 people to be precise, still have not found work and have received official unemployed status, i.e. They have been waiting for their vacancy for several months.

Oksana Galkevich: Alexander Evgenievich, please comment, it’s very interesting. There are two very serious enterprises in the Rostov region, in general, on the scale of our country, but these comments that were received by our correspondent by phone, are they correct, are they all in accordance with the law? Or did you still hear something there?

Alexander Lysenko: Of course not. Absolutely incorrect.

Alexander Lysenko: I think that, especially the first case, this is real discrimination. I think that if a case of an administrative offense is opened here, even a criminal case, because we have from one hundred thousand to five years there, in general for discrimination against people with disabilities. Here you can achieve success in this case. Moreover, we are talking about deaf people; in general, they have problems with finding employment, but it is easier for them to find employment than, for example, a person in a wheelchair or a blind person. Still, there are much fewer restrictions. As for the interview, well, of course, since we are talking on an equal basis, then hiring should be on an equal basis.

Konstantin Churikov: Qualifications matter, yes.

Alexander Lysenko: Another question is that, of course, a person with a disability needs to be prepared for this interview. Because it just so happens, for various reasons, that people with disabilities do not know how to present themselves. Although they have abilities and talents.

Oksana Galkevich: And in general, specialists are no worse.

Alexander Lysenko: Yes, no worse. Maybe even a wonderful specialist, and we know. Therefore, this is the state of affairs. Well, by the way, I must say, this was the Rostov region. We have regions where the employment situation for people with disabilities is very good. On average across the country, for example, we have 25.2 employed disabled people of working age out of the total number of disabled people. Those. quarter. Those. If we say that there are about four million disabled people of working age in our country, a million are currently working. This means the ministry says we will bring this figure to two million. It must be borne in mind, of course, that among disabled people of working age, now these are women under 55, men under 60, of course, there are very severely disabled people, with severe mental disorders, immobilized... I.e. this does not mean that one hundred percent should work and can work. No, of course not, right?

Konstantin Churikov: Well, naturally.

Alexander Lysenko: But, nevertheless, 50 percent is a figure corresponding to the European level. So there are regions where this level is quite low. Well, for example, Krasnodar region. In the Krasnodar Territory, where there is agricultural work and where industrial production is developed, why is there one of the lowest levels of employment of disabled people of working age? And vice versa. We have regions... Well, for example, Kaluga region, Belgorod region. The Belgorod region is also comparable to the Krasnodar region in terms of climatic and geographical conditions, right? St. Petersburg, too. This means that it depends, well, let’s say, on the head. From the governor. From attention to the problem. From the professionalism of the employment service and how the position of employers is formed. In the Rostov region it has not been formed.

Konstantin Churikov: Returning to this story, it seems to me that our correspondent who conducted this experiment can also be said to be lucky with his profession. It’s easy to imagine that today it’s easier for a radio electronics engineer to find a job than, for example, I don’t know, some economist or lawyer. By the way, what professions are most difficult for people with disabilities to find employment in today?

Alexander Lysenko

Konstantin Churikov: Yes.

Oksana Galkevich:

- - we are talking about a bribe, -

Konstantin Churikov: Earn a bribe.

Oksana Galkevich: This is some kind of cynicism.

Alexander Lysenko

Konstantin Churikov: Every situation is unique.

Alexander Lysenko:

Oksana Galkevich: You say “targeted assistance”, you say “orientation”, “based on a person’s needs”. But a man writes:

Alexander Lysenko

Oksana Galkevich

Alexander Lysenko

Konstantin Churikov

Oksana Galkevich: Which thread should I pull?

Alexander Lysenko: Let's do it this way. This issue must be resolved in two directions: the first direction is strategic. Well, in general, work and employment are fundamental concepts. They depend on the level of development of society. We can’t see the level of development of societies... Yes, we switched the switch, and tomorrow everything became normal? And this model, a new model. Yes, development is underway now, by the way, the ministry is working, a new large comprehensive plan is being created, it is discussed everywhere, it is criticized, it is added to. And what they wrote in Izvestia - we started the program with this - is that they are creating a more flexible system. Of course, reviews are already appearing: “Well, the ministry has decided to pay off disabled people, and employers who don’t want...”

Konstantin Churikov

Alexander Lysenko

Oksana Galkevich

Alexander Lysenko

Oksana Galkevich: It will be composed correctly, right?

Alexander Lysenko

Oksana Galkevich

Alexander Lysenko:

Of course, systematic work: on the one hand, the state and the employment service, on the other hand, employers who must also understand, and on the third hand, people with disabilities themselves. And this is a single whole, it cannot be divided, of course, I completely agree with you!

Alexander Lysenko: You know, we have been conducting a raid for the last year. We looked at employment centers. Their accessibility for disabled people, the salary that is offered to disabled people, of course, the bank of vacancies that is offered to disabled people. I personally also participated in this raid. And, for example, in the city of Barnaul, among the list of specialties that are offered to disabled people, these were mainly cleaners, wardrobe attendants and other such low-quality, low-skilled, low-wage professions. One of the highest paying specialties in that job bank for people with disabilities was offered in the specialty of... what do you think? Concrete worker! With a salary of 30 thousand rubles! So, of course, you are asking an absolutely correct question. Why should people with disabilities work in such low-quality jobs, because many of them have the necessary skills and profession. And so we surveyed the regions: in general, how much do disabled people earn when employed in the regions? It turned out that their salary is three to three and a half times lower than the average salary in the region. And in the story that you showed, we actually saw that a person is looking for a job that is sufficiently qualified, yes, a working specialty, but the salary is decent, normal. They refuse him. And others will offer him another job. Although she is a normal specialty. We currently have a shortage of skilled workers.

Konstantin Churikov: Yes.

Oksana Galkevich: You know, TV viewers write to us, for example, one person asks how to cope with epilepsy. You also have to warn about this when applying for a job. Apparently they refuse too. And now a man writes to us from Dagestan:

- I am a disabled person of the third group, of two hands - one is 60 percent capable. Help me get settled, in Dagestan they demand money for this,- we are talking about a bribe, - and where to get them, much less earn them?

Konstantin Churikov: Earn a bribe.

Oksana Galkevich: This is some kind of cynicism.

Alexander Lysenko: Very good question. Do you know why? Indeed, it is impossible to imagine a person with a disability as such an abstract average person called a “disabled person.” This is a colossal mistake. And we say that employment must be targeted. Taking into account the limitations that a person has.

Konstantin Churikov: Every situation is unique.

Alexander Lysenko: Of course, it’s also the fact that one arm doesn’t work, and some people have no vision, while others use a wheelchair to get around. There must be a certain targeting both in the offer of jobs and in the employment of people with disabilities. And such a person should generally be recommended, and then look for a job in accordance with his needs and capabilities.

Oksana Galkevich: You say “targeted assistance”, you say “orientation”, “looking at the needs” of a person. But a man writes:

- I haven’t worked officially since 2008, - actually according to the indications, - So they don’t register me with the employment center.

Actually, in the center where they should help with the selection and search for a job for this person. They require a certificate from your place of work. Vicious circle!

Alexander Lysenko: The first thing I would advise this person is: he has a specific entry in the individual rehabilitation program, and there are recommendations for employment there. This is the first one. If he is not registered and the employment service does not help him. This is a total disgrace. And we will definitely look at what we have there in Dagestan with the employment service.

Oksana Galkevich: This is a different message, a different region.

Alexander Lysenko: Second. In general, I’m talking now about how it should be. But this does not mean at all that this is the case now. That's why you and we are raising this issue because we must create a new model of employment and employment for people with disabilities. Because the old model, which barely achieved 25 percent employment, well, it’s obvious that it doesn’t work.

Konstantin Churikov: Yes, but it’s a long wait. As long as the Ministry of Labor finalizes its proposal for this bill, the deputies will accept it. Those. What should people do now? Is it clear to you to complain, to complain to the Prosecutor General's Office? Or is it the regional prosecutor's office? Well, it’s a violation of human rights!

Oksana Galkevich: Which thread should I pull?

Konstantin Churikov: No, well, it was just put in the title, in fact it’s not like that.

Alexander Lysenko: Yes, in fact, everything is not like that, these are steps in the direction, an attempt to do better. And we should not hit back at the ministry’s attempts with such headlines. But this is a set of measures, we’ll probably talk about it.

Right now. How to live now. I want to say that today a lot of work is being done, and it is already normatively enshrined in laws. For example, the federal law on Social Protection of Persons with Disabilities already spells out many measures on how work should be carried out. Requirements have been made that people, for example, who work in these employment centers, must be trained to work with people with disabilities. And just like that, don’t dismiss a person who is experiencing difficulties from the threshold.

Therefore, go, first of all, to employment services, go to social services of the population. Go to public organizations of disabled people. Like this. You know, we now have very militant public organizations of disabled people. And now many of our employment agencies, so-called recruiting agencies, are also engaged in the employment of people with disabilities. Those. Disabled people themselves also need to be active in life. Complain - yes!

Oksana Galkevich: Yes, but you still have to somehow have the strength to do this, yes, health is still not enough when you have to break through a wall. It's hard.

Alexander Lysenko: In order to help such people, in general, from the point of view of the executive branch, there is the same social protection of the population, which is obliged to accompany such people, it is clear that they need support. The same all-Russian popular front that raises these questions. Believe me, there are results, if a person does not sit back, then results can be achieved.

I’ll give you just the last example. A disabled person from the central region comes to me, and he also can’t find a job, because he… he’s a lawyer in general, a great lawyer! But he has cerebral palsy, he can't speak normally, but he writes great. But they won’t accept him anywhere because he has speech problems and severe tremors. And the lawyer is wonderful, I look at his website, his work. I say: “Listen, hundreds, thousands of people will come to you for help. There, write a statement of claim, there...”

Oksana Galkevich: It will be composed correctly, right?

Alexander Lysenko: Absolutely right, yes! And he himself is a disabled person, he can help disabled people... I say, this is the way to make money. Moreover, today distance employment has been legalized; we have different forms of employment. He can become an individual entrepreneur, he can earn money from this. But he is an active person, he is in search. And the one who sits with folded hands, well...

Oksana Galkevich: Listen, it feels like we still need to work in different directions. We have a society... One way or another, when we discuss this topic, we are divided into “we” and “they”. It is necessary to explain not only to people with disabilities what options are available for employment. We all need to explain that we need to hire and work with such people, this is normal. Here, some kind of educational educational work.

Alexander Lysenko: I have several disabled people working for me, I want to tell you, there is no division into “us” and “they”. Moreover, there is no division at all, the team is so friendly. Recently we took a girl with a disability on maternity leave. She gave birth to a baby - this is a huge holiday for the whole team.

Konstantin Churikov: Let's listen to what our viewer Rustam from the Chelyabinsk region wants to tell us. Rustam, hello.

Rustam, Chelyabinsk: Hello, can you hear me normally?

Oksana Galkevich: Wonderful! Speak.

Rustam, Chelyabinsk: I accidentally literally turned on your channel, I was pleasantly surprised that there was such a question as “reform of compulsory employment of people with disabilities,” I listened a little, excuse me, I don’t know your middle names, and I don’t know the name of that representative who...

Konstantin Churikov: Alexander Evgenievich in the studio, this is Oksana, I’m Konstantin. Let's get to know each other.

Rustam, Chelyabinsk: Thank you. So, look, I am disabled from childhood. I live in the city of Chelyabinsk, I have cerebral palsy, as everyone usually did in Soviet times. My musculoskeletal system is impaired, and, accordingly, it has been quite difficult to find a job since childhood. Despite this, I received my education there at the Kusinsky orphanage. Then I graduated full-time from the legal technical school, full-time department, and all this on cribs in two buildings, there, on the steps. But that's not so bad. Having received an education even with quite such a diploma. We trained specialists specifically for pension funds. I received this education in the hope that it would seem to be easier. But by that time the salaries were small, and, accordingly, I could not work like that. That’s why fate confronted me with the fact that I had to make my own way in this life. And now I would like to say something else. Our state is always trying to discuss reforms of those segments of the population that, let’s say, are a little disadvantaged in some case by this layer. But the fact is that those people who are ready to work with this have information that is implausible, it is distorted. Because I don’t know the system of reliability of information that reaches our central Moscow residents there...

Konstantina Churikov: Various departments...

Rustam, Chelyabinsk: Yes, yes, yes, from different departments. It's very distorted. Well, fate so happened that I worked as a director. Then it happened - the crisis of 2007, and I was again left with nothing...

Konstantin Churikov: And you're not working now?

Rustam, Chelyabinsk: No, well, I never officially work anywhere. Because officially no one will ever hire you as a disabled person. If an organization hires a disabled person, it will get so many problems. So many…

Konstantin Churikov: Rustam, thank you for your call. Here are the key words: no one will ever officially hire a disabled person.

Oksana Galkevich: But it seems to me that it is also important that life does not know the people whose help, in fact, we are talking about when developing such projects. Tell me, is some kind of expert assessment of the disabled community involved in the development, in the assessment?

Alexander Lysenko: Let's start with your question. I am a disabled person of the second group, indefinitely. And these problems in Chelyabinsk, for example, are dealt with by wheelchair user Evgeniy, who is the co-chairman of the regional headquarters of the All-Russian Popular Front. And we generally work in close contact with public organizations of disabled people. At all expert meetings, at meetings in the presidential administration on this issue, people with disabilities are always present, they make their proposals, criticize, and make recommendations. Yes, maybe 10 years ago this was not the case, but now it is exactly the case. Therefore, everyone knows absolutely the position of the disabled community.

As for the question of what they say: “no, we will never hire a disabled person.” You know, yes, indeed, the norms of the labor code, they impose very serious obligations on employers. And according to our sociological surveys, employers are afraid to hire people with disabilities. Moreover, there is judicial practice. And judicial practice is such that, of course, all labor disputes, well, the majority, are resolved in favor of the disabled person. Such an unspoken attitude already exists. Is it possible to somehow justify with this the fact that a disabled person is not hired, or simply hired illegally? No, this, of course, cannot be justified. This can only be justified by the deep ignorance of employers.

Konstantin Churikov: Here our viewer asks a question. It seems to me that the answer to this question will, so to speak, open the door to solving the whole problem.

- What are the benefits for an employer when employing a disabled person?

When will the employer be able to answer this question for himself, and the state will be able to stimulate those who will hire disabled people. Probably, somehow we will conduct the dialogue differently...

Alexander Lysenko: A very good question, because today an employer on the open labor market has no benefits at all. Let's just say that, of course, a disabled person is not so competitive, and his labor productivity is lower. Therefore, today one of the main tasks is to find ways to stimulate employers.

Oksana Galkevich: Thank you.

Konstantin Churikov: Thank you. Alexander Lysenko, a scientific expert of the ONF on issues of disabled people, was in our studio.